More human or more supernatural?

[Tali]

Years ago I used to study early medieval mythology - mainly all the Arthur stories repeated again and again and changing a lot over time as the societies who told the stories changed. Arthur is generally assumed to have been a real character in history (even if his name has been changed), but has gained more and more mystery and supernatural characteristics as time went on.

It's easy to assume that all stories were like that, getting embellished and exaggerated each time they were told, but a lot of characters in old British (and South American, and probably quite a few other places) mythology have become more human since their origin.

Lludd for example was once the healer god, Nodens or Nudd, who is thought to be the same as Nuadu, King of the entirely supernatural Tuatha de Danann in Irish mythology. Lludd has been called 'the Zeus of the older deities'. But he appears only as a king in Geoffrey of Monmouths stories and the Mabinogion.

Mostly in Britain and South America, the humanising of deities is attributed to the old gods becoming absorbed into Christianity in forms that were more acceptable (as bringing the pantheon in would contradict the monotheistic thing).

So in this way Llyr became King Lear, Brigit, once goddess of fire,health and poetry, became a saint. Many of the old divinities such as Kai, Arawn, Gwyn and Manawyddan and Pryderi became knights of the round table or servants of Arthur. Charles Squire even suggests that Arthur himself may have been a rehashing of Gwydion.

Well I find it interesting anyway...

[Tali]

BTW if anyones interested, Charles Squires 'Celtic Myth and Mythology' is well interesting (if a little confusing sometimes). You can find it on this site, with hyperlinked index of pretty much anyone in British mythology.

www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cml/index.htm

[Balsiefen]

Its such a shame that so much darkage mythology is lost or uncertain. It was one of the most interesting points in history

[Lex]

I think many of the celtic myths and pagan gods were downsized during the coming of Christianity. I imagine the transition from God to king was perhaps not an accidental one.

And your right, it is interesting.

[knightofroma]

I think most deities and demi-deities began their mythological existence as mere heroes - the Greeks were the most open about acknowledging this fact, since they actually had demi-gods such as Herakles, Aiakos, etc, and since they had very complex but decipherable genealogies. However, in most pantheons, there seems to be a sense of new gods overthrowing the old, whether this is considered a good thing - eg, Zeus and co overthrowing big bad Kronos - or a bad thing; the attempt by Loki and friends to defeat the Aesir and Vanir come Ragnarok. To my mind, this is little different from the changing of the status of mythological beings.

In fact, in many religions there were stories of characters who ascended to sit at the table of the gods, and sometimes become one as well - Herakles, Romulus, Mohammed, Jesus, etc. With so many open transitions in status of characters, I think it is very likely that some characters made this transition not in a story itself, but with the story itself changing to allow for their varied status.

If that makes any sense... Damn I need some sleep. *goes to look at another thread*

[Tali]

I think I see what you mean, but the examples you give are heroes gaining status or the new overthrowing the old within a story, I guess what really struck me here was the demotion of characters over the years with the changes in society. This (societal changes reflected in mythology) is probably my greatest interest and often the most difficult thing to study because we often only have the newer sources, and yes, it sucks that we know so little about such an interesting period.

If anyone know any other cases of this happening let me know, as I've only really read about it happening in Britain.