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Post by Balsiefen on Jun 26, 2007 15:43:56 GMT
Nice, finaly a topic about my favorate dragon ;D
I knew about the sarmatian dragon but i never connected it with the mercian. I always thaught of it as a germanic dragon that came in with the angles.
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Post by Lex on Jun 26, 2007 15:48:30 GMT
If there is something you want found out we will do our best to research it. Even those of us who havent got a clue what they are talking about cough splutter Gleep splutter wheeze Stooby cough sneeze ... ahem
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Post by firebreather on Jul 1, 2007 10:45:59 GMT
So I'm confused... are we talking about a white or golden dragon here?
Just wanted to point out that the Sarmatians came in 175 (AD I take it?) and the myth of the Welsh red dragon and white foreign one (later attributed to Saxons) is likely to date back to between 100 and 200 BC. The Mercian dragon also looks very similar to the 2 in that story.
Just to pre-empt any doubt - Mr. Google didn't give me that info either! ...tho this may be totally irrelevant because my little brain can't piece together the facts in this very strange conversation
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Post by Tali on Jul 1, 2007 11:09:59 GMT
Sorry, that was me, not firebreather... sorry!
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Post by Balsiefen on Jul 3, 2007 15:15:26 GMT
So I'm confused... are we talking about a white or golden dragon here? Just wanted to point out that the Sarmatians came in 175 (AD I take it?) and the myth of the Welsh red dragon and white foreign one (later attributed to Saxons) is likely to date back to between 100 and 200 BC. The Mercian dragon also looks very similar to the 2 in that story. Just to pre-empt any doubt - Mr. Google didn't give me that info either! ...tho this may be totally irrelevant because my little brain can't piece together the facts in this very strange conversation i thaught the welsh dragon was much later. wiki sais the dragon is gold but it isnt always accurate. The mercian dragon is from about 500AD to about 1000AD give or take a hundred years. The sarmatians were mercinaries sent in during about 100-200AD. I however think that the Mercian dragon itself is proberbly from germany and denmark rather than the Ukraine as the angles liked their dragon tales as much as anyone else.
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Post by Lex on Jul 4, 2007 12:37:39 GMT
You are both correct. Y Ddraig Goch (as far as we know) didnt come into tale until 400 - 500 AD, however this tale is very much an evolution of tales told by the celts dating back to 40 AD. These tales were probably taken from myths we are unaware of.
It is a very complex myth though and not one anybody can claim certainty on.
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Stooby
Young Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by Stooby on Jul 5, 2007 10:49:08 GMT
totally agree, Lex, nobody can be sure.
From what I read, the opinion of the author (and it made perfect sense) was that the Sarmatian dragon was one of the possible origins of the Mercian dragon.
With a gap of around 200-250 years between the arrival of the Sarmatians and the Mercian dragon, it seems plausible that one influenced the other.
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Post by gleep on Jul 5, 2007 13:15:37 GMT
I tried to get involved with the topic but as I stated before, I haven't got a clue so I will leave it to the experts and enjoy the topic from a distance
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Post by Lex on Jul 6, 2007 7:48:46 GMT
You did get involved with the topic. And your contribution was valid.
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Post by knightofroma on Jul 26, 2007 17:16:24 GMT
To resurrect a somewhat old topic, I have two comments.
Firstly, the influence of the Sarmatians is vastly over-rated. The Romans moved mercenaries all over Europe, but the idea of a regiment of Sarmatian (Which many people equate immediately with Russian) cavalry going around changing the face of Britannia seems to appeal to a lot of people.
Also, Lex, you say that Hengest and Horsa's dragon banner may have come from the Celts - their peoples came from Denmark mostly. We know from the Cimbric invasions (The Cimbri also came from what's now Denmark) of the 2nd century that contact between the Celtic lands and Scandinavia was minimal, and possibly non-existent. I believe we must look elsewhere for the origin of Hengest and Horsa's dragon.
Any thoughts?
Regards, KnightofRoma.
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Post by Lex on Jul 27, 2007 9:04:53 GMT
I said Ddraig Goch was influenced by the celts. More specifically by the dragons in the tale of Lludd & Llefelys.
It seems very likely considering the similarity of the two tales and of the locations.
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Post by knightofroma on Jul 28, 2007 21:58:31 GMT
Ah yes, now that I look back, I was misunderstanding what you were saying - your post followed on from Gleep's question about the origins of Hengest and Horsa's White Dragon banner, when actually you were explaining the origins of a different white dragon. Sorry, my mistake.
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Post by Lex on Sept 6, 2007 21:16:30 GMT
no worries
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boz
Elder Dragon
Posts: 478
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Post by boz on Oct 24, 2007 22:32:24 GMT
i purchased a red flag with white dragon on it it was advertized as being atributed to the saxons whom settled in england
it looks like the gold one posted earlier
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Post by Lex on Oct 25, 2007 21:41:38 GMT
Hmmm thats interesting, i would like to see that.
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